X-Treme XM-2000 Reconstructed

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Gman
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This is a reconstruction of the X-Treme XM 2000 post by Chas Stevenson and has been set to read only, Please do NOT try to edit this post. Thank you.

gman on Wed, 06/13/2007 - 12:02. wrote:

X-Treme XM-2000

xm-2000_pair-angle.jpg
Product Specifications:

      Street Legal: Can Register In CA or FL
      Watts: 2000W
      Amps: 38 AMP
      Volts: 60 Volts
      Batteries: 5 Full Size Batteries
      Tire Size: 3.50 x 10 36PSI
      Charger: Yes
      Tool Kit: Yes
      Speed: *40-50 MPH
      Distance: *30 Miles
      Throttle Type: Twist
      Kick Stand: Yes

    Braking System:

      Rear: Drum
      Front: Disk

      Drive System: Rear Motor Drive
      Foldable: No
      Moped Size: L70" x W27" x H47"
      Controller: Yes
      Spring Loaded Seat: Yes
      Warranty: 30 Day X-Treme Warranty - 6 Month Battery Warranty
      *depends on rider weight & terrain

xm-2000_front-wheel.jpg

xm-2000_rear-wheel.jpg

xm-2000_left-hand.jpg

xm-2000_right-hand.jpg

xm-2000_rear-lights.jpg

xm-2000_controller.jpg

xm-2000_compartment.jpg

xm-2000_ignition.jpg

xm-2000_panel.jpg

kringle777on Wed, 06/13/2007 - 15:12. wrote:

Okay, so the post moves here, eh? I don't know why we have the other sections like Product Announcements and Dealer Deals (or whatever it is) if they always get moved to this section, but anyway, the previous post said this scooter was going for $1499 from basestationzero.com.

As I said over there, does anybody at all know whether these are crap or not? I can appreciate that X-treme (the company) has had a reputation for terrible customer service in the past and some of their products have a been shoddily constructed, but I don't think they're actually manufacturing these things anyway. They're just sticking their label on them. Didn't that "Mountain Chen" guy say that his company is the actual manufacturer of these scooters?

It would be enormously helpful if we could get firsthand feedback from somebody who owns one of these. Not the XB-500, not the XB-508, but a real XM-2000. Anybody got one? The pictures look decent.

The tire size still doesn't match. One spec says 3.5"x10" and the other says 2.5"x16". The amps don't match. One says 38, the other says 40. The weight doesn't match. One says 347 lbs, the other says 125 lbs. What's the deal with this scooter?

Stleride on Wed, 06/13/2007 - 16:07. wrote:

`
In order to receive replies, very few people look at the Community Marketplace unless they are looking to make a purchase or sell a item so replies would be very limited. Once a item has been sold, the post may be removed at the request of the seller, so all comments would also be lost.
There is no problem asking question of the seller, or making a comment about the seller or there product, but we don't want it to turn into a duplicate Forum.
Because of our Guidelines, sellers are only allowed to post For Sale items in the Community Marketplace, I'm sure you understand the problem that would cause.

Stleride
Moderator Team Captain

Gman on Wed, 06/13/2007 - 16:07. wrote:

`
Some where I posted the information I got from a friend in China last weekend who is also in the business, and personally knows Mountain Chen. He told me Mountain has no Factory, just a very confusing site using smoke and mirrors.
I didn't ask him about the X-Treme XM-2000 yet. One concern is what if you lived somewhere else other than FL or CA, where

Quote:

Street Legal: Can Register In CA or FL

?

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

Gman on Wed, 06/13/2007 - 18:50. wrote:

`
FWIW, FalconEV are the US distributor for the E-Runner and E-Cruiser electric scooters which are built in China under the ERATO product name. Contact: Mountain chen / manager

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

ArcticFox on Sat, 06/16/2007 - 12:02. wrote:

I've decided that after Father's Day I'm going to stop selling these for a while. At least until there's correct information on them form X-Treme and they fix their shipping problems.

All information I get about these are from the X-Treme site. I see now that they changed their specs from what it was and they also have obvious incorrect details that were copied from the X-600 pages. Shipping these have been a pain, also, so I think I'm done with this one for a while.

Sorry folks.

Gman on Sat, 06/16/2007 - 12:14. wrote:

` ;)
ArcticFox
Your honesty is greatly appreciated. That's the main reason I didn't sign up to become a Dealer with them last year, I just heard too many bad things about there customer service, and I didn't want the hassle.
All I had to do was update my site with there products, and I would have been in the same shoes.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

PJD on Sat, 06/16/2007 - 12:30. wrote:

Well, evaluating the scooter starts with honest and error free specifications.

And, remarks like "5 full-size batteries" whatever that could mean, does not engender confidence. Also, Assuming 60 volts, neither 38 or 40 amps would produce enough power to go 45-50 mph unless you are going downhill. Based on a real measurement, my e-max needs 50-55 amps at 60 volts to go 45 mph.

At any rate, I wouldn't but anything without talking directly to the dealer. Buying anything more than a few hundred bucks based on info on a web page is nuts, unless you have money to waste.

cheap fun on Sun, 06/17/2007 - 12:47. wrote:

Hey ArcticFox,

Thanks for being involed in the forum!

I just got my XM-2000 friday, bought it @ http://www.basestationzero.com/xtreme/xm2000index.php thats ArticFox's site. I rode the heck out of it yesterday fully recharging every time. Here is my report, weight this heavely as I have no stake what so ever in the e-scooting/cycling business or Basestatiozero!

My XM-2000 arrived within 3 days with only minor shipping scars. The two handle grips were marred up from the cardboard shipping box. This is expected... you need to understand this unit comes all the way from China and even though the box is the best cardboard box I have ever seen (honeycomb construction) any better packaging would up the price of the unit $100. The quality of the XM-2000 is great, on par with I would say Crafstman quality but a little under top quality, hey if you want top quality in something that performs like the XM-2000 YOU ARE going to pay 2X. Performance, this thing lives up to any of the specs you have seen quoted. The two speeds are actually mechanicaly changed with a solenoid and gives you both extra torque and top end. Top end is 50+ thats right I haven't run this past the radar yet but I cruse at 50mph and can easly peg the spedo (50mph), I weigh 220 and it is flat where I live so any hills are only slight rises in the roadway, I peg the spedo comming off any rise. The wheels are 10in, the batteries are silicone type the manual says you will get 400 full cycles to 1000- recharges if charged after every ride depending on the distance. I have ridden 7 US miles flat out most of the way and recharged in less than 1-1/2hr the manual says a full rehcarge will take 4hr. The charger is high quality, I don't think they cut any cost here. The frame is identical to some of the 150cc scooters I have seen at dealers. The seat is big enough to carry two adults even if you are my size. The XM-2000 not Honda or Yamaha quality but good for China quality. The styling is very nice even the "go fast" X-treme stuff is tastfull. To all but the very very picky the XM-2000 looks like way more than a $1,500 scooter.This scooter looks way better in real life than in any pictures. The XM-2000 has E-Runner stickers and looks just like the E-Runner 220 except for the seats and colors so take a look; http://www.greenemotor.com/htm/erunner220.php The XM-2000 is definitely worth $1,500 even if the spedo if is off and actual top speed is 40+ something this gets you in the 40+ club (maybe even the 50 club, I'll run the radar asap) and sets a standard for price/performance. If your scooter budget can afford $1,500 GO to http://www.basestationzero.com/xtreme/xm2000index.php and GET ONE NOW! Your next best choice will be the Z-20 for $1,900++ if they ever deliver??? For $1,500 I think mine will be paid for by the end of the season.

One last note ArticFox I hope everyone who reads this buys one of these from you. You are tops in my book for offering the XM-2000 @ $1,500 and doing the e-scoot community a geat service!!!

THIS IS the MOST fun you will have this sumer for $1,500 plus consider what you will save in gas. GO GET ONE!!!! :)

cheap fun indeed!

Gman on Sun, 06/17/2007 - 14:17. wrote:

` :)
cheap fun.
Your comments are really appreciated, that's actually how we learn, and isn't that what it's all about?
Since we now know who probably makes the X-Treme XM-2000, the quality is probably just as good as the others from Erato, but the price is about the same as I was quoted by Mountain Chen, which is sort of strange.
Please keep us updated.
I really think the biggest problem with X-Treme is there customer service, how would you rate that?

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

kringle777 on Sun, 06/17/2007 - 20:43. wrote:

Cheap Fun,
I'm taking you at your word. I just ordered one of these, so now we'll have at least 2 people to review it. If I don't like it, my wife has graciously allowed me to sell it and buy a Z-20 when it comes available. It's hard to pass up a good price like that.
So, thanks for the review, and for the guts to buy one despite the inconsistent specifications. I'll post my thoughts on it when mine arrives.

Chris

cheap fun on Sun, 06/17/2007 - 22:10. wrote:

Mail order as we use to call it is mail order (web purchase). You end up working via email to contact someone. I have contacted X-treme 3 times, twice about making the amp meter on my XB-508 functional. They called me back within 24 hours each time, from Iowa... were most helpful and advised me to wait until my warranty had expired (the amp meter on a XB-508 is non functonal eye candy). If the person you end up talking to can't answer the question they will do their best to help you find the answer. They aren't "experts" on electric scooters but how many electric scooter experts are working in your city? They are "heartland USA folks" and actually ride the scooters, be polite and straight forward and thats what you will get in return. X-treme scooter are fantastic "budget" scooters, they perform as claimed. Will you need to replace a part down the road? Sure, thats going to be the case with any scooter. I'm betting you will be able to get the parts without a dealer mark-up and even find used parts because of the brand popularity.
I called GreenEmotor Inc. about the E-Runner 220 and didn't get straight answers, we won't know anything for sure about the Z-20 until it has been out for a while when ever that will be. Where else can we get a 45+mph escooter with brick and mortar type support?
The XM-2000 is a good quality scooter that delivers on performance today with inexpensive parts tomorrow. This is a great $1,500 scooter and you should get one.

cheap fun

Gman on Mon, 06/18/2007 - 13:36. wrote:

`
Well they have made a significant improvement, I remember a fellow that stayed about 40 miles away, wanted some batteries for two X-Treme Scooters that his Children rode and didn't want to pay a arm and a leg for them.
I suggested he contact X-Treme, since they were offering free shipping, he might be able to get a better price if he picked them up. They wouldn't allow him to do that, saying they had no Batteries in stock. It would seem they would have tried to work with a owner of there product to me, you just go to the warehouse and remove them from a Scooter you already have on hand.
So I hope they are changing.
BTW I'm also a Midwesterner, most of the Customer service stuff might have been handled in India or somewhere. Normally when you see this it's being handled somewhere else.
customer_service_03.jpg

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

PJD PJD on Mon, 06/18/2007 - 20:14. wrote:

As far as verifying the speed, one easy way is to simply rig a handheld GPS to the handlebar...

greatguru on Tue, 06/19/2007 - 17:55. wrote:

Hi cheap fun,

What's the noise level on the bike? How does it perform on hills?

Thanks,
Markus

PJD on Tue, 06/19/2007 - 21:18. wrote:

I believe that cheap fun said he lived in a flat area, so perhaps the better questions to ask is the acceleration - which can be translated into hill climbing. For example, if it can go 0 to 25 mph in 6 seconds would translate to a hill of about 19 percent - although the speed it would climb the hill would be hard to calculate.

Stleride on Wed, 06/20/2007 - 09:12. wrote:

` :?
I hope cheapfun hasn't left the building. Occasionally we had people like that on the old forum, so I'm very suspicious.
He buys a X-Treme XB-508 and says how great it is, and about a week latter buys a X-Treme XM-2000 and also says how great it is.
I still say, "BUYERS BEWARE" it all sounds too good to all be true.

Stleride
Moderator Team Captain

PJD on Wed, 06/20/2007 - 12:50. wrote:

"most of the Customer service stuff might have been handled in India or somewhere. Normally when you see this it's being handled somewhere else."

Yes, instead of a blond-haired model of Scandinavian or such descent, an Indian Bollywood starlet in a colorful Sari would be more appropriate.

cheap fun on Wed, 06/20/2007 - 15:58. wrote:

Quote from Moderator Team Captain Steride;

"hope cheapfun hasn't left the building. Occasionally we had people like that on the old forum, so I'm very suspicious.
He buys a X-Treme XB-508 and says how great it is, and about a week latter buys a X-Treme XM-2000 and also says how great it is.
I still say, "BUYERS BEWARE" it all sounds too good to all be true."

Stleride
Moderator Team Captain

People like what?

busy working and riding

cheap fun

Stleride on Wed, 06/20/2007 - 16:42. wrote:

`
My Bad, I'm just glad to see you haven't left the Building.
I'm very glad your satisfied with the X-Treme XM-2000, I hope it lives up to all your expectations.
For some clarification: You now have both a X-Treme XM-2000, with Silicone Batteries you purchase from [node:1144] for $1,500 and a [node:838] you purchased last month?

Stleride
Moderator Team Captain

Kringle777 on Wed, 06/20/2007 - 17:26. wrote:

Cheap Fun,
Please don't take it personally. I guess it's happened before where somebody actually selling something is the one who's hyping it. And remember, you seem to be the one person who actually owns an XM-2000. Nobody has written a review on it anywhere on the Internet, no personal pictures have appeared of it, the specs have been reported differently, etc. It's amazing that there's so little information on it so far. So, when you get a chance, maybe you can give us an update on it?
Thanks!
kringle777

Gman on Wed, 06/20/2007 - 20:02. wrote:

`
It's also really hard to find anyone to say anything positive about Silicone Batteries. [node:410]

Peace Out,
Gman

PJD on Wed, 06/20/2007 - 21:20. wrote:

As far as the silicone batteries, there not necessarily bad batteries - it's just they were hyped as a big improvement, but their cycle life was no better than cheap quality lead acid. Additionally, the "silicone' batteries manufactured by "Guineng" which a competetor (Greensaver) claims they are being made in violation of their patent, were very inconsistent in quality. Virtually every e-max made in early 2006 came with defective batteries - this single problem was what primarily drove e-max out of business.

Perhaps cheap fun can remove the seat and check the make and model of the batteries...

Gman on Thu, 06/21/2007 - 00:15. wrote:

`
Well I now know more about the X Treme. Green E Motors and X Treme to name a few are basically the same, and both are selling last years models. The newer Models have a improved mechanism shift, what ever that is.

Peace Out,
Gman

greatguru on Thu, 06/21/2007 - 12:02. wrote:

Here's what I found in the disclaimers of neoscooters.com (who also sell the XM-2000). This refers to gas scooters but I guess applies to the electric bikes as well:

Quote:

Imported Chinese Economy Scooters Notice

Razorback and X-Treme scooters fall under the Imported Chinese Economy Scooter designation. Although the price is very attractive these gas scooters are more suited for someone with good mechanical skills that can assemble the unit with the assembly instructions provided and is able to maintain and troubleshoot mechanical devices. The manufacturers provide a 30 day warranty for parts only on these models. This means that the entire unit will not be accepted for exchange. Instead you could be sent replacement parts that meet the warranty criteria, and it will be up to you to install them. You may be required to install such things as decks, tires, carburetors, and speedometers.

There are many scooter enthusiasts that enjoy working on imported mini-bikes, gas scooters, and go-karts and take pride in using their mechanical skills to keep them running. The very low price point, parts availability and relative high speeds of the Chinese imports appeal to a different market than the person looking for an every day vehicle to commute to a full time job or a college student looking for a transportation method cheaper than a car but better than a bicycle. So, if you have the patience, a few tools and the willingness to learn, you can make a Razorback or X-treme work and you will save a few hundred dollars. If you are looking for every day transportation, go with an American built unit (Goped, Boxer, Evo or Martin Monster) or Taiwanese import like a Lashout. Rad2GO scooters are of Chinese origin but of a higher quality which is reflected in their price.

And AFAIK, the bike actually ships with a set of tools :-)

Markus

ArcticFox on Thu, 06/21/2007 - 15:18. wrote:

Well...

I'm finding out now that shipping the XM-2000 scooters is a real pain. Apparently they can come straight from China damaged and are sold to the customer in the same condition. If the box that contains the scooter is in bad shape with obvious signs of bad handling, it looks like the warehouse just ships it in the same condition in hopes that everything is okay. I haven't had any problems at all selling any of the other scooters - the XM-2000 are the only ones that are causing me headaches.

I've a customer now who ordered their XM-2000 the same time 'Cheap Fun' did. The distributor shipped out wrong color, there are parts inside the box rattling around, the plastic parts are broken and the handle bars are severely bent. It's now being held at the shipping terminal waiting for further instructions. So even now, the customer doesn't have their scooter.

I have sent about 3 dozen emails back and forth between my distributor, the shipping company and the customer. I've also made several phone calls to the shipping company in hopes of finding someone to actually look at the scooter - which I got a call from back saying it was minimal plastic parts damage. This was just before I got another email from the customer who personally went down to the terminal and found the actual damage was much worse.

So. I will keep selling these at the $1500 price, for now because I, too, have bills to pay and mouths to feed. Please understand that you may/will encounter problems, damage and lack of information - not from me personally - I will forward you all the emailed information I receive from my distributor every step in the order and delivery process, but if they don't send it, you won't get it.

If you encounter problems, I can only redirect you to my distributor's customer service - I'm just the middleman.

Sometimes I feel like a new 4GHZ computer hooked up to a 56k modem. Sorry, guys.

Gman on Fri, 06/22/2007 - 11:16. wrote:

`

Quote:

kringle777:
I guess it's happened before where somebody actually selling something is the one who's hyping it.

From the old site, one that did it was Sola Night Rider
When asked, said he was only a owner of a Sola Night Rider, and how great they were. He slipped up, by replying with the same email address when I asked him a question using the link on the Solo Night Rider site. He only had one left, and was getting out of the business. I notice the site is still up, and there are several dead links. At that time I was very close to getting one, but the one wasn't the color I wanted.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

DanCar on Sun, 06/24/2007 - 19:26. wrote:

This site seems to be selling it for the same price:
http://www.ezbiking.com/ebike-xtreme.asp

Gman on Sun, 06/24/2007 - 19:53. wrote:

`
Thanks, I see. No where do they mention anything about the possible registration problem in every State except CA and FL. I think they are trying to quickly get rid of them.
I still say buyer beware, if you reside in any other State other than CA and FL, most states will require some form of registration.
I remember another person buying a E Scooter from a outlet, and I reminded him to be sure the correct paperwork was included, and the seller Fax him a copy before shipment. Well the seller originally said everything was there, then latter came back and said the paperwork wasn't in the box. He did manage to finally Fax him something before shipment. I don't know if the numbers matched or not, but a least he had something.

Peace Out,
Gman

DanCar on Sun, 06/24/2007 - 22:32. wrote:

What kind of batteries does this unit have? Are they SLA or li-on?

cheap fun on Sun, 06/24/2007 - 23:33. wrote:

Whats the deal?

Right now I am asking myself why I should waist my time with this forum.
I copied part of my previous post below for the person who spends less time reading and more time bashing something he has never owned, even touched or laid his eyes on.

"I just got my XM-2000 friday, bought it @ http://www.basestationzero.com/xtreme/xm2000index.php thats ArticFox's site. I rode the heck out of it yesterday fully recharging every time. Here is my report, weight this heavely as I have no stake what so ever in the e-scooting/cycling business or Basestatiozero!"

The batteries are each 12v 38Ah silicone produced by ELECTIER.

Gman on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 02:38. wrote:

`cheap fun,
Actually I really admire you for sticking to what you believe, as long as your satisfied that's really all that matters. Don't let us get under your skin.
It's good to hear your satisfied so far with the Silicone Batteries.
Mountain Chen, the person that sold what X Treme calls the XM-2000 to them, told me the Batteries where much better than the Silicone Batteries used in the E Max.

Quote:

yes, silcon battery is same as E-Max
but they use 20AH 8 pcs, we use 38AH 5pcs
bigger capacity and better life cycles to bear bigger current

Which ones look like your Batteries?

  1. Silicone Power Battery 12V 20Ah
    battery20.jpg
  2. Silicone Power Battery 12V 35Ah
    battery331.jpg
  3. Silicone Power Battery 12V 50Ah
    battery501.jpg

I'll have to ask Mountain Chen for more information on the Electier Silicone Batteries if they are working ok so far for you.
He seems to be every where:
Company: Xiamen Electier Manufacturing Co.Ltd
Address: No.6 Tuqiang Road,Xiamen,China Xiamen Fujian 361009 China
Phone: 86 - 21 - 67356520
Fax: 86 - 0592 - 2052047
Homepage: www.erato.cn
Contact: Mountain chen / manager

As I said earlier, we may all learn something, believe it or not we appreciate the updates.
BTW, How does your X-Treme XM-2000 shift?

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

greatguru on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 11:51. wrote:

I think what's being bashed here is not the XM-2000 itself at all, but rather the way it's being sold. It might very well be a great scooter, but before I would feel comfortable buying one I'd like to see:

1) A reputable place selling it, meaning a company that actually has a retail store, an address, a phone number and customer support to call. All the web sites selling the XM-2000 that I have come across are shops with no address or phone number (or the contact info is hidden somewhere hard to find), that always makes me VERY suspicious and EXTREMELY reluctant to buy anything from such a place, because it gives me that uneasy feeling like they have something to hide, like the web site might just vaporize without a trace a day after my credit card was charged. If there's no address, I don't even know what state's (or country's) jurisdiction this place is operating under. In contrast, in some countries, e.g. Germany, every web site is mandated by law to display the owner's name and contact info, and if a company, their corporation ID number, so there is legal recourse and clear accountability for the content.

2) A warranty more than 30 days, and an option to RMA the scoot if push comes to shove. Current warranty and RMA procedures just look like both manufacturer and dealers have no confidence whatsoever in the product. In contrast, when I bought my Voloci from Nycewheels, we agreed with Bert that I could send it back no questions asked within 10 days. Of course I kept it :)

3) An improved way of delivery that does not leave me dead in the water with a damaged scooter.

4) Possibly upgrade options on some critical components.

And yes, I'd pay an extra $400-500 for that! So if one of the existing XM-2000 dealers could just step up the game, i.e. step between the warehouse and the customer, deal with the nuisance for me instead of passing it on to me, i.e. add an extended warranty/RMA package, quality shipping, quality (phone) customer support, registration assistance for other states (even though I myself are in CA) and maybe (optionally?) replace the five most flimsy components with quality components, I'd be much more likely to want to get one, and others would be, too I think.

Just my two cents,
Markus

Kringle777 on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 13:17. wrote:

I got my new red X-treme XM-2000 today. It arrived in great condition. Aside from a rubbed throttle on the right and a rubbed decal logo on the left rear, it was in tip top condition. I had to affix the mirrors, the hand covers, and the engine covers on the both bottom sides. Other than that, it was good to go. I took it on a little neighborhood test drive before hooking it up to the charger, so I won't give it a full review just yet, but the looks of it are exceptional for the price.

The only confusing part about it, and maybe Cheap Fun can give me some insight (if he ever comes back--everybody seems to be bashing him, like he's a lurker/distributor, hahaha....), is the two speed buttons. The manual mentions a red button and a green button, but there's only one button (with maybe two sides to it?). You're supposed to press the red one to go up to 20 MPH, and then beyond that you're supposed to press the green one to go high speeds. That's kinda confusing. I'll figure it out eventually though.

I'm just glad it didn't come in pieces, with broken parts and/or a lot for me to assemble. That was my main concern, from reading other X-treme product reviews. This one is solid--you could literally cut a hole in the box and ride away from it. It looks nice, and it seems to run great from the limited ride I did on it. Okay gotta go, will post more later. And upload some pictures too!

kringle777

Gman on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 13:24. wrote:

`
Glad to see it arrived in good shape.
Remember Mountain Chen said that was the weak mechanism in last years models, the new models have a automatic shift mechanism, I suppose no buttons.
Have you tried to contact Customer Support, that's what most people are really concerned about, since it has been so bad in the pass?
As long as there are no problems in the first 30 days, then it's probably mute.
What Batteries do you have?

Peace Out,
Gman

DanCar on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 14:57. wrote:

Don't forget to post some pics and a video going 55mph. (ha ha). If you could release the copyright that would be good so that I can post them on the electric scooter article on Wikipedia. Would be nice if pic makes it obvious it is electric. If you can upload them yourself to wikipedia that would be better. Upload at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_page

This scooter seems rather exciting because it is or is approaching being practical compared to a gas scooter. I suspect as soon as there is long life lithium batteries then it will be more practical than gas scooter.

Thx,
Daniel

greatguru on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 17:32. wrote:

Wow that is great that it arrived in good shape. What is the noise level, and how does it perform on hills?

chas_stevenson on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 20:41. wrote:

greatguru,

Sounds like a great ride. Glad to hear it arrived in one piece, and I don't mean to rain on your parade but I have found when I buy something that someone else has put together I like to go over all the nuts, bolts and screws to be sure they are tight.

Good luck with your new ride. The one item I am very interested in is the 2-peed shifter. Is this a mechanical shift like gears or is it a 2-speed motor?

Chas S.

greatguru on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 20:59. wrote:

[Btw, kringle777 got the bike, not me - but if kringle is happy maybe I'll order one too]

Good point regarding the nuts & bolts - actually on my Voloci the front wheel's quick release came loose about a month into ownership, and that day I rode home from work all the way wondering why the front wheel was clunking left and right (it stayed in the fork all the way luckily). At home I found out, thanked the Lord and fastened it again (tighter this time, never came loose again). So yes, I second affirmingly.

Markus

Kringle777 on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 23:27. wrote:

I just got back from riding the XM-2000 extensively around the neighborhood. I can't take it into work just yet because I don't have a proper helmet for it yet, and I have to go register it I imagine. It's got a VIN number, so I guess I'll start there.

It arrived earlier today in a large sturdy cardboard box, about 7' x 2.5' x 4' (LWH) on a wooden pallet. It was completely assembled and looked and felt well put together. I hooked it up to the charger and let it go for several hours. The charger shuts off (it has a cooling fan) after it's done and has a green light to indicate a full charge.

It's pretty zippy and deathly silent. The shifting mechanism consists of two buttons. Only at the stops do you hit the red button on the left. It'll effectively take the scooter up to 20 MPH. From there, you press the red button on the right, and you'll feel the turbo kick in and that'll keep going--it'll take care of all speeds from there. This second button can sometimes be fooled and it'll stay in the first gear. That's probably what they fixed on next years' model. When I start it up from a dead stop again (or just keep pressing that 2nd button), then it'll shift. There's another engine reset button that I think I'm supposed to push when that happens, but I need to test it further.

It's actually very liberating going up around the 45 MPH mark. It's just enough to safely mingle with traffic without worrying about somebody riding you. I don't have any hills to test it on, but I do have a freeway overpass that sort of qualifies. I'm not going to avoid it, but I kind of think it would be good to be going already when I approach it. That's just from going up my driveway that I say that.

I'm 5'10" and 210 lbs (that's mostly muscle, I'm not a total fatty!). Sitting on the front seat, my knees have several inches to spare in front of them. It's not a total rocket going off the line, but it's just as fast as a normal car and I certainly wouldn't feel uncomfortable leading or following in traffic either. FWIW, my wife followed me in her car and said that I was a fast starter off the line. Beyond that, I have more than enough speed to keep up with cars around me.

GMan asked if I had called to test out Customer Support. I don't really have any complaints though. I guess I could call and ask for another decal for the left side, or maybe ask how I'm supposed to register it at the DMV. I'll think about that. Maybe something will break within the 30 days.

I'm still working on the pictures for the forum. I need to access the batteries. They're under the storage section under the seat. That by the way is big enough for a thick Harry Potter book. No helmet, no gallon of milk, no groceries. Snacks maybe, but that's it. Oh, and the scooter is HEAVY. I have a hard time lifting the back end up, and I'm a strong boy. Setting it up on its' center stand shows you the weight.

I think it's a great deal so far at $1499 total (shipping was free). I'm glad it was delivered to my house. Much too big and heavy for my wife and I to load in her hatchback at the shipper depot! And compared to the E-Runner which is double the price, I'm more than happy with the purchase.

So, I'll gather some specs for it and some pictures too. Oh and I've found that if you read the reviews for the E-Runner 220, it's pretty dead on with this one. I posted the following links in another part of the forum:

Review for the GreenEMotor E-Runner 160:
http://www.worldtrippers.com/07greenemotor/g070117.htm

Review for the GreenEMotor E-Runner 220:
http://www.worldtrippers.com/07greenemotor/g070313.htm

kringle777

Gman on Tue, 06/26/2007 - 00:09. wrote:

` :)
A big thanks to both cheapfun and kringle777, for taking the time away from enjoying your new E Scooter to keep us updated.
I assume both of you reside in either CA or FL so according to X Treme the registration should not be a problem. I would suggest you double check it with the VIN on the Vehicle. The VIN will be put into a national data base, and there have been cases when there were duplicate numbers issued in CA I believe.
I'll try and find out more about the shifting problem, all he said is it was weak. I'll see if I can find out how long does it normally last, and what can be done to either repair or replace it.
I'm assuming Green E Motors, Zapino and some others would also sell replacement or repair parts for it, since they are all suppose to be the same.
We're looking forward to additional updates and pics, enjoy your new E Scoot and be safe.
BTW, was there a Owners Manuel included that shows wiring diagrams etc? When you finally do open it up, see if you can ID the name on the Controller.

Peace Out,
Gman

greatguru on Wed, 06/27/2007 - 21:07. wrote:

Hi Kringle & cheap fun,

So any update on the XM-2000 experience? Did it make it over that freeway overpass?

Thanks,
Markus

kringle777 on Wed, 06/27/2007 - 21:46. wrote:

Well, I haven't tried that yet. In my quest to be color coordinated with the scooter, I waited until the day I got it to order a red helmet that matched. I know, it's stupid. I should've just bought one locally in silver or black or whatever they had. Oh well, so anyways, I'm not legal yet. It'll be here Friday.

I did happen to call the DMV here in CA about registering the thing. The lady said that I'd have to bring it in to the DMV so they can look at the VIN themselves, but that I couldn't ride it there (legally). I'm just gonna do it. I refuse to load it into a truck and drive it there. If I have to, apparently I can ride all the way there in the bike lane. Or can I use the road too? Do the scooters that have the limit of 30 MPH have license plates? Will a cop know the difference?

I got a look at the batteries by the way. The label says:
Electier
Danwang Silicone Power Battery
6-DW-38AH (12V/38AH)

Apparently there are 4 in a row on the bottom and then they stuck the 5th one on top of the others in the storage area under the seat, thus explaining the lack of space for a helmet or groceries.

kringle777

greatguruon Wed, 06/27/2007 - 22:13. wrote:

Yes, mopeds in CA have license plates, different ones than motorcycles though. I would not worry about the cops, what you said is what everyone would do too. If you come across a cop, I don't think he'll bust you (unless you run a red light of course). If you don't have a registration, you might have to show up in court and present a valid registration, and the judge will throw the case out.

Markus

Gman on Wed, 06/27/2007 - 22:54. wrote:

` ;)
Sounds good, just tell them you were influence by your Guzana, and don't have the proper paperwork.
BTW be sure to verify the VIN personally yourself, before you go.
California Motorcycle Handbook (DL 665)

Quote:

Do not ride a moped on a freeway, bicycle path or trail, equestrian (horse) trail, hiking trail, or recreational trail unless that path or trail is on or next to a road or permission to use the trail or roadway is granted by local law

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

greatguruon Wed, 06/27/2007 - 23:59. wrote:

"Do not ride" => "Do not get caught riding", hehe :)

Most of these trails are so underused, no one really cares for a polite rider on a silent, clean electric scooter whizzing by once in a while. What they really don't want is noisy, stinky two-stokes on those paths anyway.

kringle777 on Thu, 06/28/2007 - 12:03. wrote:

Here are some pictures that I took:

shippingbox.jpg
This is the sturdiest cardboard I have ever seen. It's super reinforced with multiple layers and glue. And of course the wooden pallet helps too.

OutofBox.jpg
This is right out of the box (sans plastic covering) but without the mirrors, hand covers, and engine covers.

OutofBox2.jpg
Another angle

5thBattery.jpg
Here's the 5th battery. Takes up storage space in the seat well, but that's okay with me. The batteries are about 6.75"x5.25"x5.75" (LWH)

charger.jpg
Here's the supplied charger with fan. It's about 6"x4"x2" (LWH)

Wiring1.jpg
Here's the 1st wiring diagram from the manual

Wiring2.jpg
Here's the 2nd wiring diagram from the manual

Haven't busted open the controller yet. That's next on the list.
kringle777

jtt on Thu, 06/28/2007 - 13:23. wrote:

Does anyone know what the intake on the sides are for? Are they remnants of an gas engine that used to be there?
If so I supposed that they are useless and should be covered to reduce drag.
What's the true weight of this thing?

kringle777 on Thu, 06/28/2007 - 13:42. wrote:

The intakes are just for style. They don't do anything.
The manual says it weighs 120 kilograms, which converts to 265 pounds. Somewhere around there sounds right to me. It's really hard to deadlift the backend of it.

VT-01 on Thu, 06/28/2007 - 13:54. wrote:

Greetings Jtt,

Welcome to the V-is-for-Voltage Forums!

Great to have you Aboard!

VT-01
Moderator

Moderators are volunteer members of our community who help keep V is for Voltage Forums running smoothly, and answer support questions.

Gman on Thu, 06/28/2007 - 14:15. wrote:

`
Very nice pictures, and one of the best updates I've seen. Pictures add a lot of creditability.
So your Batteries are similar to these, but because of the increased size, one has to be in the under seat area?
Silicone Power Battery 12V 20Ah
battery20.jpg

China is very efficient, they use the same body for there Petro Scooters, another reason for the safety concern when riding one. Traffic has no idea it's Electric and not Petro, so always be aware of that.
I'm sure the air circulation aids in some way keeping the Controller cool, something else I didn't know until Chas explain it to me. They need to dissipate heat, when I took my Controller apart all the Phillip screw heads stripped out. I had to drill them all out. Since they seem to be the only ones that did it, I figure they were aluminum screws to also aid in heat removal. Now I need to find some metric aluminum screws, so I can replace the ones I had to use to put it back together.
I see the weight question was answered, the type of Batteries will also affect the total weight, no mater if the Gas tank is full or empty :).
As I said somewhere earlier, they are no longer making the 2000 watt, they have all been upgraded to 2500 watts. Another possible reason for the nice discount.

BTW, Jtt welcome to our V is for Voltage Community.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

jtt on Thu, 06/28/2007 - 14:49. wrote:

265 lbs is very heavy. Surprised it can go that fast with the silicone batteries. Greenemotor has their weight at 230 lbs with lead acid battery. What is responsible for so much weight in the XM-2000? Are the silicone batteries heavy? I've never heard of silicone batteries before. Does anyone know of a website that can explain how that works and how it compares to other rechargeables like Li Ion, Lead Acid, Nickel Metal Hydride?
Thanks for all the welcome. This is a great forum. Can't wait to get my XM-2000 and free myself from conflict oil. :)

nataoutwest on Thu, 06/28/2007 - 16:26. wrote:

hello all,
i've been keeping up with the conversation on the XM-2000 and ordered one yesterday. thank you for all the valuable posts. i am wondering if anyone can tell me with any accuracy how many miles this scooter will travel on $1? assuming no wind or hills, a180 lb passenger, and 8 cent p/kilowatt hour electricity? guesses are also welcome along with any theorem, postulate or formulas used to arrive at an answer.
My home will be on a city wide green building tour this fall and I would love to park my scooter in front with a sign noting its equivalent miles per gallon.

Thanks for the help

kringle777 on Fri, 06/29/2007 - 17:44. wrote:

Okay, here's my totally unscientific reply.
I read somewhere that it costs 12 cents to recharge this scooter. Maybe it was the Chinese website, I dunno. But anyway, lets assume that they were smoking crack when they came up with those numbers. Double that, even triple it. So, 36 cents to recharge. It goes 35 to 40 miles before needing to recharge. Lets say 36 to make it easy. That's a penny a mile. If gas costs $3.50 a gallon, you'll go 350 miles on that equivalent. That's pretty decent in my book right there.

kringle777

Gman on Fri, 06/29/2007 - 18:28. wrote:

`Welcome jtt & nateoutwest to our V is for Voltage Community.

jtt

Quote:

Does anyone know of a website that can explain how that works and how it compares to other rechargeables like Li Ion, Lead Acid, Nickel Metal Hydride?

Yeap, and your at the right place. Check out our [node:1012] for a start, if you have any questions just Post new forum topic at Batteries and Chargers, and there will be several members ready to help you get the answers your looking for. This is a EV One Stop Forum, no need to keep running all around the Net.
If it ain't here, believe me our knowledgeable Members know where to locate it.

jtt

Quote:

What is responsible for so much weight in the XM-2000?

Don't believe every thing you read about China products to be exact, some start off with SLA Batteries, and latter different Batteries were added, they don't go back and re weigh the Scooter each time. I'll ask the Man that sold both products tonight, when people in China begin to wake up if you like?

nateoutwest

Quote:

i am wondering if anyone can tell me with any accuracy how many miles this scooter will travel on $1?

No there are so many factors, but it will go further than a petrol will go a $1.00 of Gas. ;) Just tell the wife your getting it no matter what. ;)

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

Board Moderator on Fri, 06/29/2007 - 18:54. wrote:

`kringle777,
Love those wiring diagrams, can you send a full size copy for our [node:399] to our Moderator Team Captain ILBCNU

Wiring1.jpg
Here's the 1st wiring diagram from the manual

Wiring2.jpg
Here's the 2nd wiring diagram from the manual

Regards,
Board Moderator

Board Moderator on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 23:46. wrote:

`
Due to a problem with our mail system, until further notice please send all file shares per instructions posted in [node:1297]

We don't recommend posting or attaching any images of any VIN etc documents, they could easily be duplicated, and someone else could use them.
If the concern is with a particular State, we'll try and help or steer you to some possible resources. We can not say what is correct and what is not, only a State official can do that.
If there is something we can do to help facilitate the matter, we are more than happy to help you. We ask that you contact us off site, and we may be able to refer you to the proper person or contact with some first hand knowledge.
We apologize for any problem this may have caused you. Feel free to contact me at any time.

Regards,
Board Moderator

chas_stevenson on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 00:29. wrote:

I just looked and the manual for the Zapino is on the [node:399] and the diagrams in the previous post are in the manual. It is in PDF format so you can magnify the image to read all the tags.

Chas S.
My Bicycle Pages

kringle777 on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 02:48. wrote:

Too Funny!
I looked at the Zapino manual and found that it is 95% the same as my X-Treme XM-2000 manual. They gave it a little bit more lipstick with the nice coverpage and pictures, but it's the same scooter, same quirky wording, same charts and indicators. Now, if we could get our hands on a GreenEMotor manual, that would also be worth comparing.
That Mountain Chen guy must be real busy supplying all these American companies with the same scooter and different paint jobs. Wonder what the Z-20 will have?
And it's amazing that they all have such a wide range of prices.

kringle777

Gman on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 06:03. wrote:

` ;)
Yeap, a very busy young man, don't forget the [node:1151]

Remember the fellow that personally knows him and offered to be our China representative said, Mountain Chen has no factory. It's all smoke and mirrors.
By sharing information we learn a lot, and begin seeing through some of the smoke. Thanks ILBCNU for creating and maintaining the [node:399], it's a great Community resource.
Mountain, just signed in, I need to ask him some more questions about his 3000 watt Lithium. and the Cowboy which he calls the new 2500 Watt that replaces the old 2000 Watt that we call new.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our [node:976]

DanCar on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 11:32. wrote:
Quote:

... Now, if we could get our hands on a GreenEMotor manual, that would also be worth comparing. That Mountain Chen guy must be real busy supplying all these American companies with the same scooter and different paint jobs. ...

The XM-2000 has the same paint job as the Greenemotor, so I would expect the manuals to be identical. The pictures of the XM-2000 do NOT say "XM-2000", instead they say "E Runner 220" which is the Greenemoter model number.

Daniel

Gman on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 12:14. wrote:

` ;)
Correct, it is my understanding from what he told me, they are the same, as well as several other brands being sold here, which did not volunteer there names, and I didn't push it.
I mentioned X Treme and Green E Motor, which he confirmed. Zapino came up latter when we were discussing the 3000 watt he quoted me a price on a sample order of.
I'll request copies of any Owners Manuels he has, and fwd them to ILBCNU for placement in the [node:399] he is hosting for us on his new site.

Peace Out,
Gman

[b]Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

ArcticFox on Mon, 07/09/2007 - 15:25. wrote:

Can someone tell me if these mopeds are even strapped to the pallet when you receive them from R+L? It's now my understanding that these are placed on the pallet and are just covered with the box. The box is then somehow strapped to the pallet with the scooter bouncing around inside unsecured causing damage. Is this correct?

kringle777 on Mon, 07/09/2007 - 18:44. wrote:

The mopeds themselves are not strapped to the pallet. The box is. The top and bottom "lids" of the box are super reinforced and are very thick and hard to bend or cut. The sides are just regular appliance-grade cardboard. It is true that the moped can be jostled around inside the box. It sits on blocks of cardboard inside the box, but can still move, technically speaking.

In my case, the throttle grip on the right and the decal on the left back panel were rubbed. X-Treme shipped new ones to me upon request.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

generationXile on Fri, 07/13/2007 - 00:01. wrote:

Firstly, Hey to everyone, and thanks for the forum!!
MAN, let me say...i wish to hell i had found this forum before i got my scooter. its not the 2000, i just got the XB-500. I went with that one cause i counldnt find anything on the 2000. i thought it might be a lemon. just saw a few bad reviews. and same for the XB-508. heard mixed reviews, however, more were better about the 500, and the price was right on ebay, for 600 total with shipping. so i grabbed it.
Same place in IOWA sold it to me. clusterF*#@ let me tell ya.
So i wanted to go with the 2000 and didnt. now im reading all this and thinking maybe i should have. I emailed a couple scooter sales places and await a reply. Im going to try to find someone who can tell me what is involved in rewiring the 500 and throwing the motor from the 2000 in it, if its possible.
you ladies and gentleman seem quite knowledgeable so i thought id run it past you first. what do you think? (just realized this should probably be on another thread huh?) also, thanks for those pics and diagrams; Made me start thinking about the whole thing a little more.

generationXile on Fri, 07/13/2007 - 00:11. wrote:

as for packaging... again mine was the 500 not the 2000. but it was the same way. it was secured in styrofoam tho too. so it didnt bounce around, but when i got it, a packing staple had gone through the tire, the handlebars were locked in the left hand position and i counldnt get them to move (whole other issue there.. grrr), bent pedal axle, and the back fender was broken. I had to open the front assembly and find the bent metal housing for the ignition lock that was keeping the bars from turning, and bend it back with a lot of force and a little finesse. packaging was shoddy, but good enough to keep it from arriving in 100 pieces. i still say it was worth it. but i just ride it around town to work and back, and to college and all that. got pulled over three times in a week on it, two twice on one trip, to and from my destination, and spent 20 mins each time with an ignorant officer trying to explain that its an electric bike that falls under personal electrically assisted vehicles under federal law and i can ride it on the road or sidewalk or whatever. im in yokel hell, in Wisconsin. still having cust service problems and all with the packaging issues, but they were actually pretty helpful when i contacted them by phone. im pretty satisfied with that. i just do cust service for a living for huge co.s and expect more i guess. so yeah, thanks again for the forum and posts guys and gals. im glad i ran across this.

greatguru on Fri, 07/13/2007 - 19:22. wrote:

Hi all -

I got my XM-2000 on Tuesday, and it arrived in the same shoddy packaging. Here's a picture:

DCP01951.jpg

(we had taken the top of the packing off on the picture, but otherwise, as you can see, front and back had come off, the handle grips had made their way through the cardboard, and the wall of the truck scraped off quite a bit of handle:

DCP01954.jpg

Also, the plastic body suffered from the constant shifting of the lousy packaging:

DCP01955.jpg

X-treme said they are going to ship replacement parts but they don't have them all in stock so I don't know when that is going to happen. I also got no MSO so I cannot really legally operate the bike.

I took it for a test ride around the neighborhood - and it performs fairly well actually, even up hill, and I have quite some nasty hills in the neighborhood - I rode it up to the top of a hill near where I live, that's 4.5 miles away and 560ft height difference:

DCP01962.jpg

Of course, it slows down a bit when the slope gets steep (and cars behind me want to pass), but all-in-all quite nice hill climbing performance for the money. Battery showed still about 80% full when I returned. For comparison, my Voloci runs out of battery before it even reaches this spot on the picture.

It is quite well built for the money. I love the two kickstands - it has an easy side kick stand and a more robust center kick stand, so you can pick which one is best for the situation.

Top speed I reached is 45mph on level ground according to the speedometer (which I think is a bit optimistic, but I couldn't independently verify this).

A few downsides:
1) In the low gear, the motor makes a load electric whining noise at around 10mph. Do other XM-2000 owners get that, too? All other speeds it is nice and quiet.
2) The odometer pickup makes loud clickering noises at higher speeds. Others get that too? Maybe some lube helps?
3) The low/high gear system is a bit annoying, but I guess I will get used to it. Actually the bike climbs hills fairly well even in high gear, and unless you come to a complete stop, you can even accelerate in the high gear, so you really seldomly need the low gear. Anyway, hopefully the bike can be upgraded with a better controller next year or so.

So that's my experience, waiting for the MSO now. Any news, kringle777/ArcticFox?

Markus

kringle777 on Fri, 07/13/2007 - 21:45. wrote:

Markus,
It looks like yours was a little more banged up than mine, but funny, it was in the same place. X-Treme sent me a new throttle grip and a new left panel as well. Yours took a bit more damage, but they'll replace it.

I discovered (I think--and thanks to ArcticFox for the suggestion) that the front wheel bearings need some attention. I have a support ticket into X-Treme about it. I have a clicking/clacking noise coming from the front wheel that speeds up and slows down with the speed of the scooter. I tested it with the power turned off and going down an incline and it clicks nonetheless. So I tried to take the front wheel off to inspect the bearings and found that the bolts are really tight. Too tight. And that'll mess up the bearings too. Doesn't give it any play. So, I've gotta go get a torque wrench this weekend and get that sucker off. And repack and/or replace the bearings if they've got wear from me riding on them in that condition.

As for the whine at low gear, yeah, it's a tad bit more than the other gear, but it is low gear after all. I hear it going up my driveway most.

All in all, I'm very happy about the purchase. I rode it into work several times and had no problems with the traffic. It was quite a pleasant and speedy ride. Even when it's 98 degrees out there the wind factor keeps me cool. Speaking of wind, that's the one bad thing--I can't listen to my radio anymore like on my bike. I go too fast and the wind drowns out the radio. Oh well, that was unsafe anyways. :)

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

greatguru on Fri, 07/13/2007 - 22:03. wrote:

Yeah those clicking/clacking sounds like what I hear too. I think it comes from the speedometer gear box on the front axle. Let me know how your support ticket goes, I mentioned that problem in my ticket, too.

So did you get it registered yet?

Markus

PJD on Sat, 07/14/2007 - 11:37. wrote:

I think you'll find the front wheel bearings are sealed ball bearing type - no service on them is possible except replacement. If installed with the proper length sleeve between th inner races, the axle bolt does no put any forces on them. I heard of one case of an e-max coming with ruined bearings - probably because of the missing sleeve.

kringle777 on Sat, 07/14/2007 - 14:45. wrote:

Thanks for the info PJD.

I disconnected the speedometer cable on the right side of the front wheel (to test out Markus' suggestion) and wrapped it up and away from the wheel so I could ride around without it. I found that the clicking/clacking noise was really pronounced and loud at that point. I then squirted some White Grease in there and reconnected it. The noise was greatly reduced, but it's still there, and I still want to take that wheel off.

So, if the bearings are most likely sealed, does that mean something else? Or could it mean that they didn't put enough grease in there? Would the super tightness of the bolts on the wheel have anything to do with it?

I guess I just need to get that wheel off. I'll do that next.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

kringle777 on Sat, 07/14/2007 - 14:55. wrote:

Oh, and as for the registration thing, I'm waiting for X-Treme to send me the MSO paper and maybe the VIN tags if they're planning that.

Until then, I Photoshopped a nice X-Treme logo license plate and bought a frame for it and mounted it. Looks like a dealer plate and advertises it as a new scooter awaiting plates (which it is).

The jury is still out as to whether I'm going to register it as a moped or motorcycle. Moped would be easier, and would be a one-time fee. I just wouldn't want to get busted for going faster than I was supposed to be capable of.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

Gman on Sat, 07/14/2007 - 17:55. wrote:

` :?
I can ask Mountain Chin about the noise, but he has already said this model is weak and the newer models are automatic and better plus 2500 watts.
My concern is what happens when the shifting mechanism just goes completely out, and the warranty is only: 30 Day X-Treme Warranty - 6 Month Battery Warranty.
I'm sure he won't mine, more business for him.
If they are already making a noise, why not return them before the 30 Days are up. Once you take off the wheel, what ever you discover, you have voided your warranty correct.
I suggest after 30 days, one of you look inside at the shift mechanism, and see what may go wrong, and a possible solution.
Anyone know how Green E Motors is dealing with these problems?

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

DanCar on Sat, 07/14/2007 - 17:57. wrote:
Quote:

newer models are automatic and better plus 2500 watts.

Which are the newer models? Are they available?

Gman on Sat, 07/14/2007 - 18:45. wrote:

` :?
Yes I believe so, I was told Green E Motors and Zapino had them, as well as some others.
Here are some post that may help.
BTW, DanCar nice to see you back.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

kringle777 on Sat, 07/14/2007 - 20:07. wrote:

The shifting mechanism takes a bit of getting used to, that's true. But it hasn't failed, nor does it feel like it's going to fail. You're supposed to rev up in the first gear to 20 MPH and then release the throttle, hit the button, and then pull the throttle back again. There's a particular way to hit the button that makes it work 90% of the time. If it doesn't, a second stab at the button will make it work the rest of the time.

Sure it's not ideal. But paying twice that for the pleasure of not hitting a button is not ideal either. And 2500 watts would be fine too, but is it worth twice the price? I dunno. I get the feeling that 2500 watts and above will ultimately be the best thing for this scooter because it will have more power in the lower end to start off faster. But it doesn't seem that it'll make it go faster in the high end. My last commute of 9 miles had two complete stops. Aside from that I was zipping along in high gear the whole way. The low gear is truly truly for the complete stop situation. And it's not like it's too slow in that situation either. To be sure, if I weighed 50 pounds less I'd be golden!!! Words to diet by.....

As for the wheel, I'm not going to return it for that reason. It's doing something and I'll figure it out and it's not a deal breaker. At some point I'm going to have to take that wheel off anyway to change or repack the bearings. They go out faster on motorcycles than on cars. The battery warranty isn't a deal breaker either. How do I know how long they will last? I've gotten no indication of any problems yet.

Time will tell if I buy the next greatest thing from X-Treme, but I'm liking it so far. Especially when I KNOW that the exact same scooter is being sold by the others for up to twice what I paid. Ha!

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

greatguru on Sat, 07/14/2007 - 21:02. wrote:

Agree with kringle. This is not the greatest scooter ever but this is the fastest scooter out there that you can actually buy today and for a good price. I am tired of waiting and all this talk about better models coming out, vaporware like Vectrix and Z-20, or restricted bikes like Zapino, and yeah next year's models are going to be so much cooler. This one goes 45mph and I have it right now. Has some issues, granted, but they can be addressed I think. And then, when the next greatest scoot is released and can actually be bought, I can still sell the XM-2000 and buy that one.

Markus

Gman on Sun, 07/15/2007 - 00:22. wrote:

` :?
Your correct, as long as you are satisfied, that's what really matters.
It's very interesting from a Marketing aspect.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

greatguru on Sun, 07/15/2007 - 13:23. wrote:

I wouldn't exactly say that I am "satisfied" (look at the pictures) :) But I got something that has enough of what I need for a price I am willing so pay so I made a purchase. The industry still has ways to go, but if we're all waiting for the people that keep promising and not buying from the people that actually deliver the industry won't get anywhere for sure...

kringle777 on Sun, 07/15/2007 - 21:30. wrote:

GreatGuru,
I fixed that clicking/clacking noise. Turns out it was the speedometer gear thingy. I've posted the pictures of what I did on my original post named "Clicking sounds and white powder????":

/forum/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/1334#comment-4221

It was an easy fix and turns out it wasn't the bearings after all.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

ArcticFox on Tue, 07/17/2007 - 02:45. wrote:

Has anyone tried to get motor vehicle insurance for these? I've a visitor who says that Geico in Orange County, California does not cover electric mopeds.

..............................................
www.BaseStationZero.com

jdh2550_1 on Tue, 07/17/2007 - 12:06. wrote:

Hi,

I'm a new member of this forum - came this way after googling the XM-2000. This is a great resource - and certainly lets me become an informed consumer. As I see it - I can buy one of these and I have a reasonable chance of getting one with only cosmetic damage. I see 3 cases with cosmetic non-deal-breaker level of damage and a report of one with bent handle bars and bust plastic. I guess I can take those odds.

There's still one possible deal breaker before I plunk down the cash - the whole registration thing. I'm in Michigan - I think if I can get an MSO and a VIN then I'm all set. With those I'm pretty sure it can be registered as a motorbike. I doubt it can be registered as a moped - too much power. So - if anyone gets an MSO, a VIN and a successful DMV trip please post your experiences. Many thanks! :)

As far as performance goes - it seems that at 150lbs I might be the ideal size for this. My main interest in getting one of these is to start my own personal journey into understanding and modifying EVs. At first I will ride and test it based on the factory settings. Then the fun begins - first step would be to upgrade to 60V of 40AH LiFePOS batteries - that should increase the range due to reduced weight and improved AHs (note also that Li-Ion batteries are more efficient than lead acids and so a 40AH Li pack is roughly equivalent to a 60AH lead acid pack).

GMan - as the man with inside track to Mountain Chen I have a question for you or him. Are the 2500W / 3500W scooters using the same motor with a controller allowing a higher amperage? (remember watts = volts * amps). Or is it a new motor? In fact do you have access to any technical data on the motor? See this page for an example of the sort of data I'm interested in: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/PARTS/EvtSpecs.htm. BTW, I'm assuming this is a DC motor - not a PMAC motor?

I find it "interesting" that ZAP's (http://www.zapworld.com/zapstore/detail.aspx?ID=389) product claims 50% more power (3kW) but a more conservative range and top speed than the 2kW model (the XM-2000). For those of you who want a better customer experience - you might want to try ZAP. I've no idea if they're better - they're just a larger name and I recognize them (check out the ZAP X (http://www.zapworld.com/ZAPWorld.aspx?id=4560) if you get a chance :jawdrop: . I'd guess they're more likely to have their own, more knowledgeable, customer service. That's just a guess! Of course they want twice as much money for essentially the same product (if you compare range and speed).

GenorationXile - in terms of modding your bike to get more power. Good luck :) You'll probably need to upgrade the controller to allow more amps to flow to the motor (you may well find it's the same motor in both products). You'll also need more volts (you'll need the same 60V to get the same RPMs from the motor - if your bike is currently 4x12V then you can wire another battery (of same make and type) in series - but then you'll also need to upgrade the charger). If you change these things then you very well may need to increase the spec of your wiring (higher amp draw = more heat = more chance of melting things). Personally I'd try and sell your old bike and buy an XM-2000.

John H.
EV Wannabe
Ann Arbor, MI

ArcticFox on Wed, 07/18/2007 - 17:08. wrote:

Registration/VIN/MSO update.

X-Treme will be sending out this information/paperwork to all the XM-2000 customers as soon as they get their stuff together. From what I can tell they received wrong information from somewhere and are working on the problem.:

"[We're] in the process of getting the MSO papers filled out to the new VIN
plates that we got. As soon as they're done we will be sending them out to
the customers that have the XM-2000."

There are existing problems with registration in Florida until this issue is solved.

..............................................
www.BaseStationZero.com

jdh2550_1 on Wed, 07/18/2007 - 17:19. wrote:

Right - I read the other post you made. My worry is that this might be as effective as the people who say "the checks in the mail". I'm sure hoping it works out.

It seems to be taking them a good number of weeks to get this sorted - does X-Treme have any update?

EV Wannabe
Ann Arbor, MI

jdh2550_1 on Wed, 07/18/2007 - 17:47. wrote:

BTW - in Michigan this should be registered as a motorcycle not a moped.

From the MDOT site: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MOPED_requirements_102195_7.pdf
"Moped" means a 2- or 3-wheeled vehicle which is equipped with a motor that does not exceed 50 cubic centimeters piston displacement, produces 2.0 brake horsepower or less, and cannot propel the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on a level surface. The power drive system shall not require the operator to shift gears.

Does the "speed button" perform a mechanical gear shift or does it just change the power output characteristics from the controller. If it's the latter then it satisfies the no shifting gears

An XM-2000 has 2.7 hp but it's close...
However, it can exceed 30 mph on a level surface - so it ain't no moped :(

John H.
EV Wannabe
Ann Arbor, MI

Board Moderator on Wed, 07/18/2007 - 23:58. wrote:

`jdh2550_1 ,
Welcome to our V is for Voltage Community, thanks for sharing the information with our members. You did a excellent job of maneuvering through our [node:1002] to the correct [node:1314].
We really need members like you to help with our [node:995].

Regards,
Board Moderator

kringle777 on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 00:11. wrote:

The gear shifter is mechanically activated by a button. Solenoid apparently. It actually makes a clicking sound when you select it.

I don't know how any officials at the motor vehicle department would know definitively what the top speed capability is. After all, the Zapino is a 3000 watt scooter that is limited to 30 MPH (what a shame). I firmly believe you could get away with registering it as a moped or a motorcycle (your choice). They aren't sophisticated enough to know what you can do by hitting a button.

The "next year" model is supposed to do all the gear shifting for you. At that point it definitively becomes a motorcycle. This years' model falls in a gray area, with you controlling what gear you want it to be in. I'm waiting a bit longer for X-Treme to deliver the paperwork, but I'm leaning towards registering it as a moped just to make it easier on myself.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

ArcticFox on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 00:14. wrote:

But the XM-2000 doesn't actually shift "gears" does it? More like switched power settings to the motor?

..............................................
www.BaseStationZero.com

Gman on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 10:00. wrote:

` :?
ArcticFox, just curious, do you own or have you ever rode a X-Treme XM-2000?

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

ArcticFox on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 10:04. wrote:

If I did, would I be asking the question? ;)

..............................................
www.BaseStationZero.com

Gman on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 10:58. wrote:

` :?

Quote:

But the XM-2000 doesn't actually shift "gears" does it? More like switched power settings to the motor?

Maybe this will help clarify it for you, from our [node:399] look at the XM-2000 Manuals and Diagrams Operation and Maintenance Instructions.

Peace Out,
Gman

MCHuntley on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 12:42. wrote:

Does anyone know if there are any more of these left at this price?

also, Good Idea on Insurance, I will have to poll AAA on this.

Thanks,
Matt

jdh2550_1 on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 12:57. wrote:

I just placed my order at ArticFox's site www.BaseStationZero.com ...

It's been like 5 minutes already - how come it's not here yet? ;)

Wish me luck!

John H.
EV Wannabe
Ann Arbor, MI

ArcticFox on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 13:47. wrote:

LOL. Because none of my systems are automated - I have to type in the information by hand... and I'm a slow typer. ;)

Thanks!

..............................................
www.BaseStationZero.com

kringle777 on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 14:10. wrote:

Quote:
"But the XM-2000 doesn't actually shift "gears" does it? More like switched power settings to the motor?"

Yep, that would be an appropriate way to put it. There are no physical gears of any kind, it just gets a bit of oomph when you hit the high speed button and then you can magically go up to 45 MPH.

I'm not a technical wiz on electric motors like some of these guys here on the forum. They'd be the ones to ask about controllers and voltages and amps and what the whole "gear" thing is all about. I'm hoping that the XM-2000 community here will be eventually represented as good as the E-Max owners. They have an awesome resource on mods and fixes and they really know their stuff.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

ArcticFox on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 14:16. wrote:

Thanks Kringle, that's what I thought.

..............................................
www.BaseStationZero.com

jdh2550_1 on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 15:13. wrote:

Glad to see I picked the unpopular color ;)

Kringle777 - the reason I'm buying mine is to use it as a platform to begin modding things. It's a great value no matter which way you look at it. However, it's especially good if you compare it to the cost of doing this yourself:

1) Buy a used gas scooter of similar design and vintage: $ 500 ???
2) Buy a motor, controller and wiring package: $1350
3) Buy batteries: $200 to $1600 depending on the chemistry (Lead Acid through to Lithium Ions)

So that's $2000 and then I have to rip out the gas engine and put in the electric motor. Not easy - but possible. Instead I opted for the XM-2000 all in, for a new scooter with batteries for $1600 delivered to my door. Pretty darn cool! 8)

My plan goes something like this:
1) Ride it as is - I may try the register it as a moped route first (now I know there's no gear just a power boost).
2) Instrument it with an ammeter, voltmeter and thermistor (temperature) and some form of data acquisition capability.
3) Ride it some more and start gathering "real world" data on routes, ranges, operating efficiency etc.
4) Let the modding begin! With #3 as a base line I can start changing things and figuring out what's a worthwhile change.

Mod's I expect to do (not necessarily in this order):
(a) plunk down big bucks for some Li-Ion batteries (less weight = greater range, better efficiency = more "effective Ah" = more range, more charging cycles = longer life batteries).
(b) up the voltage to 72V (depending on what I find out about the technical characteristics of the motor). More volts = more RPM = potentially more speed. However to reach increased road speed will require more power which means more amps. I know the Li-Ions will handle them - but first I need to figure out my likely current draw and then check if I need to improve the high-current wiring lines.
(c) Weight reduction - I don't expect to achieve much with this (it's a pretty minimal scooter after all!)
(d) Improved airflow for lower drag - probably not much possible here without totally enclosing the thing in a big bubble (hmmm - there's a thought!)

Assuming I actually do this and don't run out of time, money or motivation then one of two things will happen:
1) I'll kill the poor little beastie :(
2) I'll wring every last drop of capability out of the basic setup (motor, chassis, drive train) }:)

#1 is far more likely than #2!! :O However, assuming the tinkering gods smile upon me then I'll move onto my next project. Taking a Tank 150cc maxi-scooter, a PERM 132 72V motor and a stack of Li-Ion batteries and getting into trouble with them...

John H.
EV Wannabe
Ann Arbor, MI

Gman on Thu, 07/19/2007 - 17:56. wrote:

`jdh2550_1,
Sounds like a well thought out plan, keep us updated. A Blog would be nice, with plenty of pictures.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

Board Moderator on Fri, 07/20/2007 - 02:02. wrote:

FYI,
http://www.basestationzero.com/xtreme/xm2000index.php

X-Treme XM-2000 Electric Moped

NO LONGER FOR SALE
Due to repeated damage reported at delivery, a longstanding Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) and MSO problem, as well as incorrect specification on this moped/scooter, BaseStationZero hereby refuses to sell this to the public and also recommends customers find another form of electric transportation, perhaps the XB-600. The XM-2000 is not registerable in any state despite what other sites have said, and there has yet to be found an insurance company willing to insure it. My sincere apologies to everybody for the headaches this has caused.

X-Treme XM-2000 Electric Moped (2007 Model) complete with a 2 speed shifter, 5 batteries & a 2000 watt brush less rear hub motor. The Electric Moped will reach speeds of 45 to 50 MPH on a full charge & will travel 30 to 35 miles. The XM-2000 is fully DOT certified. This is NOT A TOY SCOOTER. It is likely you will need a drivers or motorcycle license to operate this bike. X-Treme will send you the correct MSO after you have the bike and after they receive the new correct papers. The XM-2000 has a VIN number and with an MSO paper you'll need to register it at a DMV office - however at this time it can only be registered in California & Florida as we are working on the VIN number issues with the other states. Customer is responsible for checking local laws before ordering.

Item ships by R+L Carriers. Shipping is free if you will pick it up at the nearest terminal or $100 to have it delivered to your door. If you do not live in a major city we suggest you pay the $100 to have it delivered.

YOUR INSURANCE POLICIES MAY NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR ACCIDENTS INVOLVING THE USE OF THIS SCOOTER. TO DETERMINE IF COVERAGE IS PROVIDED, YOU SHOULD CONTACT YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY OR AGENT.

BaseStationZero.jpg

Regards,
Board Moderator

Moderators are your dedicated volunteer V Team members who help keep your V Forums running smoothly and provide you with Forum Support.

jdh2550_1 on Fri, 07/20/2007 - 13:23. wrote:

Yeah - I just saw that update too - I just bought one from ArcticFox yesterday. I promise it wasn't me who p.o.'d him!

I can understand his concern and his position. Personally I'm an informed consumer (thanks to this thread) and I know what I'm getting into - however, I'm sure he'd get a lot of grief from most people (in fact he'd get grief from me if I bought one on the strength of what most folks have advertised).

So, ArcticFox, is this just the culmination of the things we already know about or is there something new to add? Also, I assume this doesn't affect my order?

I hope things sort themselves out soon.

John H.
EV Wannabe
Ann Arbor, MI

ArcticFox on Fri, 07/20/2007 - 15:22. wrote:

[John, I'll still stand behind your order should something happen]

Every single one of these is getting to my customer badly damaged. I have one that was out of the box when it arrived - said it looked like a train wreck. I was able to get the warehouse to accept the return and send him a another one (I told them to make sure it was in perfect condition before it leaves the warehouse)... that also arrives damaged and he now wants a refund (I don't blame him). For each one of these deliveries I have to spend days if not weeks for each one dealing with customer complaints, R+L Carriers, and X-Treme. It's not worth it anymore.

The final straw is the switching of the actual VIN plate. I want all this information given to me up front BEFORE I sell these. If there's this much of a problem - DON'T SELL THEM UNTIL YOU FIX IT.

The XM-2000 sells real well at my prices, but for the amount of time I have to take to send emails and phone calls about problems... that's it. I'm going to try to get hight Google search rankings for that page and will put up a link to this thread for everyone to see exactly what's going on. I will sell the XM-2000 offsite if someone wants to contact me about them - BUT YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN AFTER THE SALE. ALL SALES FINAL. Like I've told a member here, "If you've a problem with X-Treme, slam them, not me."

I still don't know if these are damaged before or after the warehouse so it's hard to fix the problem if I can't find where it's coming from. X-Treme stays silent to those email questions and so does R+L Carriers.

..............................................
www.BaseStationZero.com

chas_stevenson System Assistant Administrator 07/29/2007 - 11:25. wrote:

Because this post has been reconstructed, a continued post here - [node:1506]. You will no longer be able to post to this thread, please make all post to the continued thread.

__________________

Peace Out,
Gman

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